tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post1277942294650120916..comments2024-03-28T10:37:48.564-04:00Comments on PowerPop: Cheap Whores on Parade!NYMaryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10863355110457910935noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-42634109607240869382009-05-28T13:04:50.974-04:002009-05-28T13:04:50.974-04:00David! Your getting me in trouble. Twice now I've ...David! Your getting me in trouble. Twice now I've been asked by a coworker what it is I'm laughing about. (And that, of course, illustrates a sad truth: You don't have to be straight to "work in an office" and "live a sick and boring life!")jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-89634204030461278042009-05-28T12:09:11.565-04:002009-05-28T12:09:11.565-04:00Jeff, you had me at Gator (who later moves away to...Jeff, you had me at Gator (who later moves away to be closer to the auto in-DUS-try) <br />My favorite exchange:<br />Aunt Ida: Well I just use common sense. I mean, if they're smart they're queer, and if they're stupid they're straight, right Ernie? Are you sure you won't have another pretzel? <br />Ernie: I'm sure, miss Thing, I'm sure. Pretzels give you plaque.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04378528518778247285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-33542026650431996652009-05-28T12:04:05.060-04:002009-05-28T12:04:05.060-04:00David: Agreed. (I'm actually a fan, though I may n...David: Agreed. (I'm actually a fan, though I may not sound like it.)<br /><br />Steve: The "you" wasn't you; sorry if it came across that way. In retrospect, I should have just quoted Gator from John Waters' Female Trouble, when rebuffing Aunt Ida for pressing him to be gay: "I like guys fine, Aunt Ida, I just don't dig their equipment."jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-90283406937196085712009-05-28T11:21:31.832-04:002009-05-28T11:21:31.832-04:00jeff said...
For the record, a homosexual doesn't...<I>jeff said... <br />For the record, a homosexual doesn't, by nature, hate women; they're just not turned on sexually by them. If you don't see a difference, than maybe that's a problem.<br /><br /><br /></I>I know, obviously. And I wasn't endorsing the sentiments in the Pfeiffer quote, although it's not without a grain of truth vis a vis misogyny in our culture.steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-65079069906679039342009-05-28T11:14:51.616-04:002009-05-28T11:14:51.616-04:00I think we can agree that Richard is a brillaint g...I think we can agree that Richard is a brillaint guitarist and an unreliable narrator.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04378528518778247285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-3049316061747835122009-05-28T10:25:21.655-04:002009-05-28T10:25:21.655-04:00David: Point taken, and I won't belabor this on a ...David: Point taken, and I won't belabor this on a site obviously not intended for such discussion (the Pfeiffer quote just got me), but for RT to dump Linda after she had done so much to accommodate his Sufi Muslim lifestyle in the '70s, then write songs about women and <I> their </I> illusions... well, nobody's perfect, not even Richard Thompson.jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-31054707395678494782009-05-28T08:48:08.050-04:002009-05-28T08:48:08.050-04:00Jeff, your points on male homosexuals and the myth...Jeff, your points on male homosexuals and the myth that they have something against women are well taken (whether the same can be said for some female homosexuals is not as clear), but as for Richard Thompson eschewing the complicated for the less challenging--nobody can really say with any degree of certainty why a person chooses a partner. It's convenient to draw a conclusion that the second person was less of a challenge than the first, but the reasons are likely to be more complicated than that. Even if a documentary makes it seem that a pat answer exists, people are far too complicated for such choices to be explained in a sentence fragment.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04378528518778247285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-47211207912622974702009-05-28T08:02:47.373-04:002009-05-28T08:02:47.373-04:00For the record, a homosexual doesn't, by nature, h...For the record, a homosexual doesn't, by nature, hate women; they're just not turned on sexually by them. If you don't see a difference, than maybe that's a problem.<br /><br />Having worked twenty-odd years in record stores, when I think of a PowerPop fan I think of a guy quoting song lyrics (usually Elvis Costello) whenever he had girlfriend trouble.<br /><br />As for RT, leaving sharp, witty Linda for sweet, but less challenging, Nancy says more than enough. (See the doc from a few years back, an excerpt from which was included on a DVD with The Old Kit Bag. It used to be available to watch, in segments, on YouTube.)jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-2236230071311493822009-05-27T21:37:03.086-04:002009-05-27T21:37:03.086-04:00MBowen:
It certainly can be read that way, but gi...MBowen:<br /><br />It certainly can be read that way, but given the entirety of Richard's ouevre, I think the disgust Mould locates in the song is definitely there as well.<br /><br />Anyway, just thinking out loud..steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-85517072765745483052009-05-27T19:46:38.154-04:002009-05-27T19:46:38.154-04:00I've always thought of that particular run of Ston...I've always thought of that particular run of Stones songs (Under My Thumb, The Last Time, Stupid Girl) as a reaction to what they were going through at the time. They were getting the equivalent of that nasty, bloated feeling you get from eating candy all the time; after getting so much of what you want it stops being appetizing and becomes gross. It became easy to lash out at what you thought you wanted.<br /><br />I've never thought of "Turning of the Tide" as a misogynistic song; in fact, just the opposite. The narrator of the song is looking at the aging prostitute and feeling compassion for her, not putting her down.MBowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17992038501958547302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-49102849068415455782009-05-27T12:49:01.562-04:002009-05-27T12:49:01.562-04:00David said...
In Bob's case, the song lends itsel...<I>David said... <br />In Bob's case, the song lends itself quite well to the trollop being a man: 'the boys all say you look so fine' 'sailors,' 'shabby dress' etc..<br /></I><B>PBS -- The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau</B>On tonight's episode, Jacques and the crew of The Calypso cruise the colorful waterfront bars and nightclubs of Marseilles.steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-37739895678654409782009-05-27T12:12:44.002-04:002009-05-27T12:12:44.002-04:00"I shot my mouth off and you showed me what that h..."I shot my mouth off and you showed me what that hole was for" - Chrissie Hynde working hard to confuse us all. <br /><br />"He Hit Me (It Felt Like a Kiss)" - The Crystals beating Chrissie to the punch, so to speak. <br /><br />"Such a duty as the subject owes the prince,<br />Even such a woman oweth to her husband;<br />And when she is froward, peevish, sullen, sour,<br />And not obedient to his honest will,<br />What is she but a foul contending rebel,<br />And graceless traitor to her loving lord?"<br /><br />-Katherine to Petruchio, "Taming of the Shrew".<br /><br />Kate then offers to put her hand beneath her husband’s foot.<br /><br />Upshot: it's a confusing world, and it's not just males who are confused. <br /><br />As for "Under My Thumb," I always heard the narrator as a really sad dope who, one day, might wise up. You know, as soon as you start thinking that way, you're about to get burned.<br /><br /> I guess for that reason, the lyrical content never bothered me.Noam Sanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14078219408896745687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-49898683735720186452009-05-27T10:35:57.766-04:002009-05-27T10:35:57.766-04:00Of "Under My Thumb" -- or maybe it was "The Last T...Of "Under My Thumb" -- or maybe it was "The Last Time," I don't remember -- Jon Landau (back when he was a rock critic, not Springsteen's manager) famously observed that "it's like every high school boy's fantasy of how he'd like to talk to his girlfriend."<br /><br />Of course, he said that in 1966 or 67.<br />:-)<br /><br />Seriously, I think the Stones are a complicated issue; I think on some of the songs -- "Backstreet Girl" in particular, which I was planning on blogging about -- it's obvious that the lyric is written from the perspective of a fictional character, not Jagger himself. In the Randy Newman "I'm writing in the voice of a bigoted redneck asshole" sense.steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-8656778389755863822009-05-27T10:29:20.863-04:002009-05-27T10:29:20.863-04:00As a holder of a minority political position in th...As a holder of a minority political position in the world of rock, I have a lot of practice in appreciating the music and lyrics while not agreeing with them. I mean, I can't listen to just the Nuge (shudder) and the Smithereens (who are great!)<br /><br />I joke, but while I don't agree with misogynistic sentiments, I can relate to having my heart broke and blaming the whole thing on women in general instead of on A woman or (more likely) whatever I did to screw up the relationship in the first place.<br /><br />Under My Thumb is really sexist, but is has a great beat and I can dance to it. And it is wonderfully, perhaps archtypically sexist. And somehow, that matters and makes it OK to listen to if not to accept.<br /><br />For me anyway.<br /><br />But it is interesting to me that the same sort of thing in a comic leaves me flat. Andrew Dice Clay, whether he was a satire or not, just never made me laugh. His sexist attitude just got on my nerves.<br /><br />TreyTMinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221261635305430323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-82624094213951623212009-05-27T10:14:42.591-04:002009-05-27T10:14:42.591-04:00In Bob's case, the song lends itself quite well to...In Bob's case, the song lends itself quite well to the trollop being a man: 'the boys all say you look so fine' 'sailors,' 'shabby dress' etc..Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04378528518778247285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-19281637970020436192009-05-27T09:35:03.168-04:002009-05-27T09:35:03.168-04:00(SLAP!)
Seriously, you know where I stand on this...(SLAP!)<br /><br />Seriously, you know where I stand on this. And since right now I'm getting to pick the brains of some of the people I've called out most often on this score, this is pretty timely for me. <br /><br />And I think a lot of it has to do with pop being a boy's game, though I admit, I do not know why that is.NYMaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863355110457910935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-72788288053497106732009-05-27T09:27:47.745-04:002009-05-27T09:27:47.745-04:00Charley Starkweather said...
If I viewed every po...<I>Charley Starkweather said... <br />If I viewed every pop song as a an admission of intent or belief, rather than an examination of feelings, then I'd never listen to another pop song. <br /></I>And if women knew what men were really thinking, they'd never stop slapping us.<br />:-)steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-76540621488405349712009-05-27T09:23:51.518-04:002009-05-27T09:23:51.518-04:00If I viewed every pop song as a an admission of in...If I viewed every pop song as a an admission of intent or belief, rather than an examination of feelings, then I'd never listen to another pop song. Music is a place to try on the cape of the callow, the scarves of the scary, and the mantle of misogyny -- without wearing it in your life. And it's also a way to shine a light on offenders while noting that they're real -- and not cartoons.<br /><br />It's also a place where a real cocksucker can nevertheless rock yer world for 2' 38'' . . . and you don't have to hang out with the guy.Charley Starkweatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00456716282593911926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-6644273431952981182009-05-27T08:38:01.844-04:002009-05-27T08:38:01.844-04:00The adolescent sneer of pop is basically, as Leste...The adolescent sneer of pop is basically, as Lester Bangs famously put it, a way for teenage virgins to write about sex without revealing their abject ignorance of the subject.steve simelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-69512941327542534702009-05-27T07:52:02.377-04:002009-05-27T07:52:02.377-04:00Per misogynist lyrics: I've always wondered if it'...Per misogynist lyrics: I've always wondered if it's just a way self-loathing comes out, for both sexes, straight and gay. There's John Lennon, for example, with "Run for your life", and I think Bob Dylan indulged similar nastiness quite a few times. It's also,sadly, a good fit with that adolescent sneer of pop.coozledadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16378200771638827376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8921382.post-1807708630161611162009-05-27T07:43:28.258-04:002009-05-27T07:43:28.258-04:00Is it "women," or "a woman"?Is it "women," or "a woman"?JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999191800351157731noreply@blogger.com