Monday, July 09, 2007

Josie and the Pussycats For a New Century?

If you were with us yesterday, you may have noticed that faithful reader dave took considerable umbrage at my suggestion that the respective ouevres of Ashlee Simpson and Kelly Clarkson were a trifle lacking in anything that make might make them, uh, interesting or important.

Dave's a terrific fellow and highly knowledgeable about that brand of contemporary barely post-teen pop/rock, and while I remain unconvinced about Simpson and Clarkson, (especially the latter -- sorry, but anybody who came up on the mean streets of American Idol is never gonna get any respect from me), we've basically agreed to disagree on the subject.

That said, in the course of our discussion, dave also sang the praises of Canadian poptarts Skye Sweetnam and
Fefe Dobson, neither of whom I had paid much attention to previously.

Here's the former's video for "Billy S."



Okay, cute.

And here's Fefe's for "Unforgiven."



Okay, kind of interesting.

But here's my point. While I don't necessarily hate either of those songs -- although "Unforgiven," which dave assured me was "one of the most moving songs ever about the effects of parental separation" strikes my perhaps jaded ears as a hilariously overwrought unintentional parody of teen angst -- I have a larger problem with both of them.

To wit: Isn't it weird to be constructing an entire esthetic around performers who seem to have learned everything they know from reruns of Fame? Which is to say don't both of those kids strike you as musical theater types in fairly unconvincing rock drag, rather than something deserving the same respect as, say, the new Fountains of Wayne CD?

I'm curious what you folks think, so weigh in if you're of a mind to.

27 comments:

billy b said...

steverino, I definitely see where you're coming from vis-a-vis Idol and Ashlee S is in the same category as N Stynk except that the lads can at least carry a tune, but I was pleasantly surprised by one Ms. Clarkson by her Live Earth performance. I'd never seen her before and thought she wasn't half bad.

Now if I can just get you to let me know what you thought about the recent story on Jim Morrison's demise...

steve simels said...

billy b:

Morrison's demise? I seem to have missed something...

billy b said...

Cat that ran a bar in Paris (the Circus??) Jim frequented said he OD'ed on smack and the drug dealers took him back to his place and put him in the bathtub.

Shades of Pulp Fiction or Street Hassle.

I'll go find a link to the story.

billy b said...

steverino -

here's a link to the Morrison story.

billy b said...

damn, forgot to post the link

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=436638

steve simels said...

billy b:

I'll go look at the link and get back to you...
:-)

steve simels said...

billy b:

Certainly seems plausible. And weren't there rumors to basically that effect for years?

I haven't read the Morrison bio in ages, but this sounds familiar.

TMink said...

Simpson and Clarkson have always struck me as a product. Now the Monkees at least started out as a product, but it was a damn good one. They began as playing the role of popstars too, but it is difficult for me to write them off.

Maybe cause I heard the songs when I was a kid and did not worry myself with such concerns.

Trey

Cleveland Bob said...

I thought that we were talking about AI and its dilatory effect on Power Pop. Who care about dead ol' Jim Morrison?

Steve, I agree. Whatever credit and kudos Ms. Clarkson ever gets for her reasonably decent skills is entirely sullied by her entre into the world of commercial music. She may has/have paid her dues, but with exposure to countless millions of teenagers via that inane Coke and Ford commercial of a teevee show, her whole oeuvre is tainted.

American Idol is a contest, life as a qualified musician is not.

billy b said...

I haven't read the Morrison bio in ages, but this sounds familiar.


In the bio, I seem to recall the natural cause thing and his girlfriend finding him in the bathtub dead.

I'd never heard about the OD story, but it makes sense. Evidently, Maryanne Faithful, all of 24 at the time was at the club when Jim ODed. According to the story, she left the next day for Morocco and will not talk about the story to this day.

Hmmmmm.

steve simels said...

As far as I'm concerned, winning on AI is like winning on Star Search.

The best you can be is Sam Harris wrestling "Over the Rainbow" to the floor until I lies submissive and gasping for breath.

AI is premised on lack of originality, i.e., sounding exactly like somebody else who is already successful. Anybody with a hint of creativity or originality couldn't even get through the door. Too hard to market, which of course is the thing the show is really about: shifting product.

Dave said...

Interesting to note that Fountains of Wayne worked in the genre I (loosely) refer to constantly as teenpop-note-the-single-word...on the "Josie and the Pussycats OST"! Wrote some great tunes, performed by Letters to Cleo lead and now Svengalette in the flesh to (what I call) post-teenpop (i.e. self-conscious corrective to the "Lindsays and Parises of the world" using a relatively antiquated c. 2000 teenpop aesthetic) Shut Up Stella, who have some cute tunes that for the most part don't hold a candle to Skye or Fefe. (Hm, they have making-of webisodes now I've never seen, should watch those!)

Anyway, my point was...it seems to me like a particularly arbitrary distinction to draw a hard line between Fountains of Wayne and, say, Skye Sweetnam -- especially if this is simply based on a writing/performance-based measure of authenticity.

I don't deny you that standard, nec. My dad, for instance, listens almost exclusively to classical guitar music, so to him performance authenticity means something very different than to me, who's accustomed to the occasional theatrical shortcuts in a given pop performance (I have seen Ashlee live, though, and she was excellent. Didn't even lip sync or nuthin!) But I imagine this standard of even the most basic engagement is, in pop music, usually employed semi-arbitrarily to put down artists "of a class" one is uncomfortable with -- the Lindsays and Parises and Ashlees. Same goes for a lot of critics who dig the occasional "exception to the rule" mainstream country tune/album.

Skye gets wrapped up in this class distinction, but actually has a fairly "indie" production ethos, which has made her the unlikely candidate for two-time major label "imaginary superstar" status, as she says. Her first alb is essentially a collection of basement demos released via Capitol uncut, henceas "authentic" along writing/production lines as any major-label FoW album you'd care to mention! Second alb started as a collection of demos before Capitol listened to it, loved it, and hooked her up with every big producer in the book (Dr. Luke then presumably proceeded to rip her off and give her ideas to Avril, who's even stealing from Skye's PHOTO SHOOTS!).

Dave said...

Steve, I can assure you that pop did not largely sound like Kelly Clarkson before she hit big with "Since U Been Gone" in late 2004, and in fact she didn't make THAT much of an impact except as a sort of one-off crossover success. Her new one is so "unpleasant" that almost everyone has derided her for FAILING to be pop enough!!! I think the darkest tunes are great, though, really hard, difficult rock sound with lovely voice that one reviewer has referred to as "an opulent battering ram."

Dave said...

And I've never heard a "karaoke staple" as dark or uncompromisingly bleak and paranoid as "Because of You," in which Kelly blames her mother for being too weak to stand up to her abusive father -- Kelly claims that because of "you" (mom), she can't even walk down the sidewalk and feel safe, "I am afraid." This simply is not a prevalent viewpoint from anyone in any genre, even in emo! The closest I can even think of is, like, Eminem. She took all of emo's unfocused outrage at the world and turned it inward onto herself (and her family) and she got herself a top ten piano ballad smash with it! That's pretty unique, I think.

TMink said...

I need to get to a place where I can listen to the cuts without the video. The images to both were corny and distracting. But isn't Skye bubblegum and Fefe faux core?

Trey

Dave said...

Fefe can and has done bubblegum, is in fact one of the funniest pop stars out there (for nice bubblegum/garage nod, check out "If I Was a Guy," which I think NYMary might like!)

Skye's never been that serious. Closest are her one or two sort of big-acoustic-ballad tracks (cf. "Fallen Through").

steve simels said...

dave:

I was hoping you'd show up.

Look, I realize a lot of this is simply me justifying my own admittedly snobbish prejudices.

As I've said repeatedly, I'm a Monkees fan, so it ill behooves me to take cheap shots at groups for being disposable shlock pop or manufactured. Except that since it's (partly) my blog, I get to do that because its fun.

You think Clarkson, Simpson et al are serious artistes worthy of being taken seriously? Fine. You may be right.

That won't stop me from snarking at them if I find the claim hard to believe on the merits: the songs.

Which I continue to hear as soulless overproduced corporate shlock. Them's the breaks....

Oh, and I'm sorry -- that Dobson I- hate-you-daddy song is so ludicrously bombastic you just have to laugh. It's like a teen temper tantrum with background music by Richard Wagner.

I'm reminded of something Oscar Wilde (I think) observed:

"What is to silly to be said can only be sung."

steve simels said...

tmink:

Did you wander in over from Althouse or have you been here before?

Just wondering...

TMink said...

Hey Steve, I read your stuff over at Stereo Review in the day and enjoyed it there and did come here from Althouse. So while I wandered in from there, I would like to hang here too if that is cool with all involved.

I am a huge music fan, with a soft spot for power pop in particular. I have most of the dB's, a lot of Cheap Trick, all the Beatles, some Graham Parker, Liz Phair (even the latest stuff which nobody else likes) and other of that ilk. I play guitar badly, and would love to join in the conversation about music.

Let me know. It is your blog.

Any please call me Trey.

Trey

Kid Charlemagne said...

Where have you gone Kim Wilde? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

Or, at least the kids from East California.

steve simels said...

tmink:

Hang here as often as you want. The more the merrier.....

steve simels said...

Trey -- tmink.

Sorry. You're Trey from now on.

TMink said...

Oh, Kim Wilde! Kids in America worked for me, but I cannot recall another song she ever did.

Kinda like Louise Goffin and "Kid Blue." Ya know, I may be more lenient with female pop rock posers than male. Not that either of these two ladies fit that description, but I bet I am a little baised toward accepting the ladies.

Trey

shrimplate said...

It's really all about the songs, and when you get right down to it, the plain fact of the matter is that Ashlee didn't write "Brass in Pocket."

Lindsay Lohan didn't write "Cruel Inventions."

Fefe didn't write "Stupid Girl."

Even the most talented musicians are only as good as the material they perform, and the stuff these young women do is pretty much forgetable.

My hunch is that's more the fault of the business office suits than the performers themselves.

steve simels said...

Even the most talented musicians are only as good as the material they perform, and the stuff these young women do is pretty much forgetable.

My hunch is that's more the fault of the business office suits than the performers themselves.


Yep on both counts.

TMink said...

Shrimp, I agree with your point in the majority. But there are folks who can take a song and work it and make it their own. They all have real talent and soul, and I think that the talent may not be enough by itself.

Trey

shrimplate said...

Trey, you're right about that of course, and sometimes a talented individual can even transform a sucky song into art.

Aztec Camera's alchemy with Van Halen's incredibly lame "Jump," for example. God I wish I still had that 10-inch EP around. I miss it like crazy.