Daniel Robinson (foreground) and guitarist Pat Manley at The Continental in NYC.
In this wacky post-postmodern world, who's to say what's ethical? Or so I tell myself when I consider the ethics of what I'm about to do. Look, I wrote this, sort of, but I'm going to link to it anyway, because it's cool, and a decent interview with a terrific songwriter. So there.
Okay, so a while ago (a couple of months now, I think) I interviewed Daniel Robinson of Milton and the Devils Party. I know Robinson personally, and I like him, maybe one reason I felt okay about this foray into traditional rock writing, which I generally eschew. We're both overeducated pop nuts, but our interests lie in such radically different directions that we've always got something to discuss or about which to argue (usually) good-naturedly. It's always fun to talk about music with your friends, and if it happens to fit into some other form, so much the better.
The interview appeared in Buzzsaw Haircut, a student publication at one of my campuses, presented here in an online version (thus the B for Buzzaw, which is really me). Anyway, here it is. Enjoy!
DR: I think respecting the genre is important. The songwriters who measure up in this regard are Ray Davies, Morrissey, and Nick Cave. Also Lloyd Cole, and sometimes Leonard Cohen. The ones who fail are people like Sting or Elvis Costello.
B: Why do they fail?
DR: Well, Sting’s problem as a songwriter is that he’s just a little bit smarter than the average person, and he tries to get as much mileage out of that as he can. But he can’t really go that far. I do believe he is smart—but almost in a mathematical, musical way. Not really in a literary sense.
B: Do you mean the early, poppy, reggae stuff? Or are we talking “Dream of the Blue Turtles” here?
DR: Well, I do think Sting has learned from his mistakes (“Don’t Stand So Close To Me,” “Wrapped Around Your Finger,” “Tea In The Sahara,” etc.). So, now that he’s grown out of his pretentiousness, he has nothing really to say.
B: His mispronunciation of Nabokov has had serious effects.
DR: Well, he’s not that smart.
B: But Elvis Costello has a similar split, no? Between something like This Year’s Model and say, “God Give Me Strength”?
DR: Well, Elvis Costello is too smart for his own good. Sting’s not really smart enough to pull off what he wants to do. Elvis Costello will throw everything away just to dazzle you with a phrase. If I ever taught a songwriting class (and I might one day), I would do a week on EC and have students read Samuel Johnson’s comments on the metaphysical poets—a lot of it applies to Elvis Costello!
B: Remind my readers what Johnson said about the metaphysical poets.
DR: Well, basically, that the metaphysicals love to dazzle you with surprising conceits—false wit—and incongruities, wordplay. But the poems don’t really add up to anything meaningful. Johnson saw that the parts were greater than the whole and that that was a serious deficiency. Elvis will throw a phrase like “I’m in a grip-like vice” and you are so dazzled by the brilliance of that that you forget that the rest of the song doesn’t make any sense.
If you're curious to see what kind of stuff someone with these opinions comes up with, you can hear a few mp3s here. Also MDP is available at Amazon.com and through itunes: if you have to pick one song to buy, and you're a power pop fan, allow me to humbly recommend "Perfect Breasts," which is poppy, energetic, and a hoot (so to speak). (I tried to podcast a sample, but as it transpires, #$%&ing Blogger doesn't accept podcasts yet. But I have a tech request in!)
Oh, and the pic is by the divine watertiger!
15 comments:
Rock 'n Roll Photographer. C'est moi! ;)
I like Elvis Costello. But anti-Costello-ites may be pleased to learn that Shane MacGowan once stole all his booze during the Pogues's notorious first tour with them.
Well, I'll stand up for early EC, and about half of Spike (would that an American artist had the balls to pen something as vicious as "Tramp The Dirt Down"!), but as ghs points out, his reputation is pretty safe anyway. But agitpropre makes a valuable point: 30 years is a long time to be in the public eye, and it would be frankly shocking if there weren't crap out there under his name. (Back to the Egg, anyone?)
I won't comment on the Johnson kafuffle, since I only ever knew enough about Johnson to get me the hell out of grad school. I thought he was quite good on Black Adder, if that helps.
What, no one wants to stand up for poor old Sting?
I'll take the plunge for our tantric Brit... lol, "Lady in Red" is one of the best cheesy makeout songs ever.
Come onnnn, you know it's true. ;)
Ok, "black tar macadam" I'll give you...
"Lady in Red" was Chris de Burgh.
Mind you, I only was able to type that after I'd stopped vomiting from the thought of that song.
Between that and "You Look Wonderful Tonight" by Eric Clapton...I'd like to take both of them by their skulls and knock 'em together for writing such aurally offensive detritus.
I will stand up for Sting and not just because he is, was, and always will be totally hot.
His music makes me feel good. It's the equivalent of a hot cup of tea when you finally get home on a cold, rainy November afternoon when people have been mean to you. I can relax to Sting.
Interesting though that while I have all Police albums except Zenyatta Mondatta (forgive please any spelling errors as I am desperately ill) I do not have any of his solo stuff. Not that I don't like it, because I do, but it's not the Police which I really love. (It's one of those pesky pre-teen connections that never really let go. I've got one to REM as well, but THEY are still around.) Maybe I don't have Sting's solo stuff because to me he will always be part of a trio...
anyhooo... I had a point, and I really don't remember what it was (see above) so I'm going to stop writing now.
:)
miltontheband (hi!), I'm surprised that you seem to give morrissey (and, nymary might argue, ray davies) a free pass for the sort of "clever for clever's sake" lyrical drive you accuse EC of having. Johnson talk aside (I dunno that EC ever got all that metaphysical...your example in the interview isn't any loftier than a pun), if it's the self-consciousness that gets to you, the Smiths and the Kinks aren't the safest counter-examples -- and pardon my own lack of examples, I just wanted to be a part of the FITE. As far as artists completely devoid of this kind of lyrical posing are concerned, I'd go for ABBA or, more specifically, Agnetha Faltskog, who is amazing.
I can't keep up with this! But fwiw...
RE: EC v. Moz, I still think the line between cleverness and poignancy isn't as clear-cut as you suggest...by your definition, is "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out" funny or poignant? Is Moz commenting on adolescent misery (funny) or indulging in it (not funny)? Or to go back to your EC quote, is "Party Girl" really THAT sincere that "grip-like vice" somehow undermines its poignancy?
Re: "Alison," I think "my aim is true" is more complex (and honest) than you're suggesting. He did name the album after that line, suggesting it's more than a "silly" murder gag in context. Like Moz, he's using (arguably) sophisticated black humor to filter a more juvenile form of anger.
The real crime in "Alison" is the line about "loving somebody/ I only know it isn't mine." Bad form.
Milton said: "In my younger, more roguish days I actually seduced a girl by suggesting that I was the closest thing to Sting she was ever going to get--and it worked! ;-) Before you people jump all over me--I was like 19."
I'm sure lots want to jump all over you! lucky girl ;-)
Shane MacGowan is of course a far better songwriter and lyricist than Morrisey. That really can't be argued.
"Shane MacGowan is of course a far better songwriter and lyricist than Morrisey. That really can't be argued."
This is true.
Is S McG still alive?
"Shane MacGowan is of course a far better songwriter and lyricist than Morrisey. That really can't be argued."
Yeah, but Morrissey has better teeth.
then again, a woodchuck has better teeth.
"Yeah, but Morrissey has better teeth."
This is true... Does S McG even HAVE teeth? Or is it just the one?
Assuming, of course, that he's still alive..
i've always thought that sting, at least post-police sting, was too ambitious for pop, but too lame for jazz.
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